Evolving Mining for a Sustainable Energy Transition: ICMM CEO Rohitesh Dhawan in Conversation

Rohitesh Dhawan (00:00):

The world has woken up to the scale of our biodiversity crisis. We have a million species at risk of extinction. We have global ecosystems on the verge of collapse. And if we don't urgently stop and halt and reverse the loss of nature, we are in for a really bad time as a planet. And so, given that mining is a nature-based industry, the world is rightly looking to us to show leadership.

Michael Torrance (00:34):

Welcome to Sustainability Leaders. I'm Michael Torrance, chief Sustainability Officer with BMO Financial Group. On this show, we will talk with leading sustainability practitioners from the corporate, investor, academic, and NGO communities to explore how this rapidly evolving field of sustainability is impacting global investment business practices and our world.

Disclosure (00:56):

The views expressed here are those of the participants and not those of Bank of Montreal, its affiliates or subsidiaries.

Dan Barclay (01:07):

Welcome to the Sustainability Leaders Podcast. I'm Dan Barclay, CEO, and group head, BMO Capital Markets. Today I'm joined by Rohitesh Dhawan, Ro for short, CEO of the International Council of Mining and Metals, ICMM. Hello, Ro. It's a pleasure to sit down with you again at our annual mining conference in Florida. I can't believe only a year has passed since our last podcast. It feels like the world has changed so much so quickly. Mining is still the world's oldest and most important industry, but perhaps we could start with your views on how the changing demands on the industry seem to be evolving daily.

Rohitesh Dhawan (01:42):

Dan, it's brilliant to be here. You know, the year hasn't fully started till we've joined you and your colleagues here in Miami. But just as a sign of how much the world has changed, I've gotta tell you, this is my third big trip of the year already. And we're just at the end of Feb. And typically the only trip we would make before joining you here in Miami would be either to Davos or to Cape Town for the mining in Daba. But now there's another event that's been added to the global mining calendar, and that is the Future Minerals Forum in Riyadh Saudi Arabia. Now, many people listening to this will be surprised Saudi Arabia mining, when did that happen? And actually it happened two years ago when the kingdom of Saudi Arabia had made a decision right from the top, right from the Crown Prince that mining is going to be one of their three pillars of Vision 2030.

(02:31):

And it's such a poignant example of how there are parts of the world that mining is going to become a big part of that you wouldn't have thought before. And I think that's an incredibly exciting prospect. And I've had really robust engagements with the Kingdom on some pretty tricky issues, including issues related to human rights. And I've been impressed by their openness to engage on these matters. So we'll get into it, Dan, about how, you know, the industry needs to change to meet the world's demands. But I think just the fact that we now have a new player on the mining scene like Saudi is exactly what you're saying about the pace of change in the world.

Dan Barclay (03:11):

And remind me, what was the title for that session?

Rohitesh Dhawan (03:13):

It's called The Future Minerals Forum. And so they're saying that the world will need a lot more minerals that companies describe as future facing. And Saudi has deposits of zinc and nickel and gold and copper, and we're seeing greater rates of participation of the global mining industry in Saudi. But Dan, one thing I'm really proud to tell you is that the new law for mining in Saudi Arabia references the ICMMs reporting guidance on water. And that's the kind of change that I've been working for and we've been wanting to see in the wider industry, is that the steps that the global leaders, the biggest companies that are in ICMM take, have an influence beyond just our membership. So it's really gratifying to see that other countries are referencing ICMM materials.

Dan Barclay (04:02):

Well, I think it's really on point when I think about our conference here. If you remember, we've rebranded the conference, uh, the Global Metals and Mining used to be mining Metals, metals and mining and critical minerals conference. And I suspect that the themes and the pieces we're trying to push in the evolution industry is very similar to the conversation that you had in Saudi Arabia. One of the things I wouldn't mind just getting a little thought from you on is when you think about critical minerals, what does that mean to ICMM? When you think about membership, you think about issues, you think about the facing of the largest and most important mining companies as they think about the future industries themselves.

Rohitesh Dhawan (04:37):

Dan, in one sentence for us, we say that the minerals we produce are critical, but the way we produce them is as if they were not. Why I am saying that is because when the world hears critical minerals, I think in some people's minds it evokes a deep concern about destroying the planet and leaving people behind in search of these commodities. And our promise as ICMM to the world is that in producing these metals and minerals, which are essential to all of our lives today and to the energy transition, we will do it by taking great care of people and the planet. Now, that's not to say that accidents won't happen and we won't get things wrong. The inherent risks of mining are that we will, but I think people are looking to us to gain our confidence that we will do everything in our power to avoid that from happening.

(05:33):

And to put it really simply, then I think what people really want to see from us is that we're not going to put profit ahead of the safety of people or the stability of our planet. And that's the commitment we make across our membership. And I admit that amongst us, we have the world's largest companies who have the resources and the will to do mining well. But the mining industry consists of all types of players, smaller players who perhaps don't have the resources or the will. And this is where Dan, I'm gonna enlist your help and the, the help of all our colleagues who have anything to do with mining and medals. To say that it depends on all of us to, in every conversation, we have to be asking the question, are we doing mining as sustainably and responsibly as we can? Because ultimately the products that the world needs from us are indeed critical.

(06:26):

But we also have to just face up to the difficult truth that the industry is not trusted to do the right thing. And I can understand why people feel that way because it just stops somebody on the street and ask them, what do you think of mining? And typically the answer you'd get is, well, it's unsafe and it's dirty. And, and we know that's not true in all cases, but we know that it is true in some cases. And so until we truly lift the standards for everybody, I'm not sure we'll be successful in closing this deep trust gap that exists today. But I'm confident it can be done. And that's certainly the mission for us at ICM M

Dan Barclay (07:03):

Well, I think that is is critical. You made a great presentation yesterday on trust as one of the most critical but also short resources of the industry. Let's transition a little bit back to ICMM and the responsible stewardship that ICM is advancing. Take us through a little bit of some of the things that you're working on, the approach you have. And I think in often cases people misunderstand the nature of industry associations, what their purpose is and then what they're actually trying to accomplish. And in your case, you've taken in a very strong direction.

Rohitesh Dhawan (07:36):

Danny, you're absolutely right. Typically people would see industry associations as playing to the parochial, narrow commercial interests of its members. And there's nothing wrong with that. As long as everybody's open that, that's what the association is there to do. In our case, we've gone in a very different direction. What we've done is brought the leaders of the industry. So it's the CEOs of the 26 companies that belong to ICMM to come around the same table to park the competitive instincts at the door and to say, how are we going to work together to raise the standards of responsible mining? There's no other industry that has the equivalent of ICMM, and we've been at this for 21 years now. I'm confident that if it didn't exist today, it would be impossible to create. It's such a unique and special place where the leaders gather to push each other to go further.

(08:29):

Now does that mean we get everything right? Absolutely not. But it is certainly our complete intent to never slow down or to halt in raising the bar and pushing the boundaries of responsible mining. I'll just give you one example and this Dan is our top priority in 2023, which is to collectively arrive at the contribution that we can make to nature positive future. The world has woken up to the scale of our biodiversity crisis. We have a million species at risk of extinction. We have global ecosystems on the verge of collapse. And if we don't urgently stop and halt and reverse the loss of nature, we are in for a really bad time as a planet. And so given that mining is a nature-based industry, the world is rightly looking to us to show leadership. And already where we operate, we have strong commitments on nature.

(09:29):

So for example, no matter how precious the resource, we will not operate in a World heritage site because we think that world heritage sites should be completely off limits, not just to mining, but to all forms of industrial activity. And here's the funny thing, Dan. It is still legal to operate in a world heritage site in many parts of the world, but we made a principled commitment that we will not go there. And where we do mine, we will achieve no net loss of biodiversity. So in other words, biodiversity is made no worse off where we mine than if we didn't. But the scale of the crisis means we have to go further. No, net loss is not enough. We have to get to a place of being nature positive. And so that's the work we are leading this year. And we hope to be able to articulate what commitment and action we are taking towards a nature positive future. That's just one of 12 areas we're working on. But the reason I highlight it is because it connects so deeply to the issues that people care about outside of mining, that when we meet the moment and we meet people where they are, it can fundamentally change people's perception and the way they relate to our industry.

Dan Barclay (10:41):

And I wanted to go back to that a little bit. When you think about often an industry group could be perceived as looking after its own interests. Mm. In some ways this is, it's a virtuous circle, right? That you can do more because you're good, therefore you can do more. I would've thought the balancing act that many of your members are struggling with is between their corporate need, the local environment, government, shareholder, shareholder demand, which is often quite no offense to some of them, quite vacuous or very short-term thinking. You had a great example yesterday about the way ICMM has gone forward in building standards, particularly around tailings bonds and how you went around that, how you developed consensus. And I think most importantly, it's not binding on 26 companies. It's now becoming a much broader standard across the world. Maybe talk a little bit about that process to create what is a very powerful trust building tool?

Rohitesh Dhawan (11:39):

It's a really good point you make Dan. And for folks who uh, may not be familiar with tailings, you know, they are at their core, the waste rock that is generated when we process the material out of the rock. And they have to be stored in these enormous dams, which are some of the most complex geological structures on earth. But because they contain some element of liquid or they did in the past, we need to make sure they're stable because if they burst, they can cause real damage. And sadly, and very tragically four years ago, one of those tailings dams in Brumadinho in Brazil burst killing 270 people. And coming out of that, the industry committed to developing a standard that would certainly apply as a condition of membership to the 26 companies at I cmm, but as you say, should be followed by everyone everywhere.

(12:29):

And the fascinating thing about this was it wasn't the industry that went away and developed a standard and told the world, Hey, look at the standard. Isn't it great? Because rightly people would question and say, really, did you push the standard as far as it could go? Or did you stop short of what would count as real responsible practice because it would cost you money or because the shareholders wouldn't support it? So what we decided to do was to build it jointly with two other partners. One was the principles for responsible investment or P R I, representing the interests of investors. And the second was unep or the United Nations in Environment Program representing the interests of civil society. That gave the standard much more credibility than anything we would've achieved if the industry walked away and did it on its own. <laugh>. Now let me be clear with you, that process was one of the hardest things that anyone who has been a part of it had to go through in their entire career because these are worlds that don't often intersect.

(13:28):

But frankly, Dan, and this gets to some of the things you've been alluding to in the future, if we're gonna meet the demand for our minerals and build trust in society, we're going to have to learn to work with people we didn't have to work with before. And the standard is such a great example of how when we collaborate, we end up creating something that is so much bigger than the sum of its parts. So the 26 companies that belong to ICMM have absolutely committed to applying the standard. It is a condition of membership. And then we found that investor groups are encouraging and in some cases forcing the companies they invest in to also adopt the standard. So the Church of England Pension Sport, for example, has said they will vote against the boards and managements of companies who do not embrace the standard. And as a result of that, so many more companies have signed onto the standard. So I think there's a great role here for the investor community to play, but it all starts with running a process that has the trust and faith of society, that it will be balanced, it will be robust and it won't tilt in favor of any one single stakeholder group.

Dan Barclay (14:36):

I think the other one that's critically important is it's actually region agnostic. Right? Totally. It's clearly company agnostic completely, but it's also region agnostic. And you think about some of the dynamics of the industry where you've got poor countries or countries with less developed derogatory regimes and then, and that's a negotiation about what the standard could be. This is a global standard.

Rohitesh Dhawan (14:57):

Exactly. And it applies everywhere. And I mean, let's talk about the heritage of your bank in Canada, which has some of the highest standards for tailings management already, but actually in other parts of the world that doesn't hold true. And so with this standard, anywhere a tailings dam is being built, whether that's in Canada, in South Africa, in Indonesia, anywhere, the operators are using the standard to make sure that we set the bar at a high enough level. And that's the value of global commitments from not just our group but other groups as well, is it doesn't rely on strong regulation in places where there's strong regulation. Wonderful. But actually Dan, I do not have faith that governments and regulators are going to lead us to a more sustainable future. Our history tells us that regulation always place catch up. It never really leads us to a more sustainable future. Think about that on issues like carbon pricing on other sustainability factors. So it behooves us to take the opportunity we have for leadership and regulation will often play catch up.

Dan Barclay (16:01):

Yeah. And I often use a slightly different version of this. I call it incentive versus penalty. And in the penalty system what you do is you'll do the minimum required. Mm. Rule-based system penalty systems are very similar. Mm-hmm. And so you become what is the minimum, not what's right or the maximum. Mm-hmm. In incentive systems, you actually do more. Mm-hmm. You're incented to do more. We all understand what we would call tail risk, no pun intended <laugh>. But the dynamic of if you know you're a bad environmental operator right. It damages your ability to operate your social license. And yet we've had problems over time with that exact issue. The incentive system should work where you're maximizing that outcome. When I think about energy transition and investments today in climate change, we're starting to hit places where we have incentive systems. You know, the fundamentally the IRA in the US is an incentive system.

(16:48):

Mm. Right? Not the ultimate incentive. It's really on tax and and other grants. But it actually is inducing change that we wouldn't have had otherwise. Right. So it's induced that change. You can do it with a rule, but you can do it in in other methods. Mm-hmm. When we think about mining in esg, let's take the lens back a little bit. We went into a very specific example. When you think about some of the social issues or some of the governance issues. So what are some of the other factors that you're watching these days in mining?

Rohitesh Dhawan (17:15):

It's a great question. And often people say that in esg, the social and governance aspects s and g don't get as much attention, but in reality they're more important. And that's because we don't yet have the quantitative tools to measure social and governance issues in the way that we have in environmental issues. So Dan, we really took that on as a challenge. And what we have come up with is a standard way by which the 26 companies in ICMM, but we hope of course the wider industry will report social and economic contributions starting next year in a consistent way. Now why is this important? It's important because often governments and local communities will say, well if I'm gonna host a mine in my country or in my local community, what am I getting in return for it? You say jobs, you say taxes, you say community development, show me.

(18:08):

Now, currently what happens is every company describes that benefit in a different way. So how we measure a job, is it a full-time job? Is it a part-time job? Does it pay a living wage, does it not? These are all really important considerations that affect the lives of people on the ground. So we came up with a standard way in which all companies would report across eight key indicators. And that includes jobs, infrastructure, development, community developments, support to governments, taxes. And that way there is no doubt there is no ambiguity on the value we are adding. Now, here are some cool things about it. One, we have promised that we will not just talk in aggregate about the amount of value we add, we will break it down by gender. That's because we know that the world is rightly concerned about inequality between men and women at every level.

(19:02):

Whether that's pay, whether that's economic opportunity, whether that's safety. So we will break our numbers down by gender. Then it gets even more interesting. We will break our numbers down by race and especially in countries where race issues are really important, like where I come from South Africa. And we will also show the ratio of the living wage that we pay to the living wage in the local community and the ratio of the median wage we pay to the CEO's compensation. Now this is a level of transparency, Dan, that other industries don't have, people don't expect from mining, but it's exactly the direction we need to go in in order to better manage the social and governance issues. I'll just use a couple other examples of areas of work that we've been pursuing in this, in this space. One is that we committed that we would make all our contracts with governments public that we entered into or changed after the 1st of January, 2021.

(20:00):

Now again, it's fascinating because many people will think really, people might think, but I thought governments might have some things they may not want the world to know about how they negotiated contracts with the mining industry. Now let's bring that all in the open. Uh, it's really important that people have transparency about how contracts are built and negotiated so local citizens can hold their governments to account to say, well, if that's the amount of royalty that you're getting from the mining industry, what's the result of it? And here's the final piece of it. We've also made a commitment that starting next year we will report our tax payments on a country by country basis. Now again, it is entirely accepted practice that companies report tax payments at an aggregate level, not broken down country by country. But think about it, if you are a citizen of Zambia and you have mining happening in your country in Zambia, the copper is extracted in Zambia, but through a perfectly legal transfer pricing deal, it's sold in a different country and tax is paid in that country.

(21:01):

Now, Zambian citizens want to know how much tax did you pay in Zambia? How much tax did you pay in a third country? And it is only when we get to that level of transparency that I think we can build the trust between the industry and people in host countries and we can have a good discussion about how to make sure that where minerals are extracted, benefits flow to those people. So, and these are some of the issues in the social and governance area that have been priority for us. And that's not just because they matter to us, but most importantly because they matter to other people.

Dan Barclay (21:35):

And I think one of the things you might take away from the conference is just how much, when I listened to what you just said was showing up actually in presentations. Mm. I'm not gonna say I saw the eight factors broken up by country on any slide, but that point of local accountability and effectively local economic empowerment, cuz that's really the dynamic that you're wrestling with. You know, we've got in Canada, as you know, we struggle with what we call reconciliation and some of the challenges we have with our indigenous groups and the same issues on social and mining around the world and how do you actually put it together? And cutting checks doesn't solve the problem, right? You actually have to make change happen on the ground. Uh, I love your word transparency and accountability because those are, uh, one of the things we try to work with at BMO is what I call radical transparency. Which is exactly what you're pushing. I'm sure there was a few of your members that didn't start on the same page of where you finished, but they got there because they understand if they don't have to your theme of the conference trust, which is, you know, a codeword for credibility, then how are they going to accelerate uh, the collective good for the industry?

Rohitesh Dhawan (22:37):

Absolutely. And and I just, I love what you've just said about the importance of issues like indigenous peoples in countries like Canada. And here here's something that I think is so striking globally at the moment. There are about 5,000 mining projects for what one would call energy transition minerals. So this is copper and lithium and cobalt and nickel and zinc and everything else we're gonna need for the energy transition. 5,000 projects at different stages of development, about half of those are on or near indigenous land. And I don't think it's a controversial thing to say that the relationship between indigenous communities and the mining industry hasn't always been a peaceful and positive one. So unless we reset that relationship and get that right, how are we going to build these projects in a way that brings supply as quickly as we need it, but equally not just protects, but enhances the rights of indigenous peoples.

(23:34):

And I promise everybody listening to this, Dan didn't tell me or pay me to say this, but one wonderful thing about this conference is that you always have your finger on the pulse of the most important issues facing the industry. And just the rebranding of the conference to include the word critical minerals shows that you are absolutely taking us in the right direction of the issues we're going to have to grapple with like the rights of indigenous peoples that typically may not have entered people's consciousness as something to think about in the critical minerals debate. But you provide a platform for us to talk about these issues, find solutions so that we can get ahead of some of these issues rather than find them as things that end up halting both the industry's progress and then the value we can add.

Dan Barclay (24:19):

Well, and I think we also had a number of breakout sessions. One was on carbon offsets, uh, we had others on chemistry and mines battery chemistry. All the pieces around the industry itself, which is, you know, there's the environmental footprint. We think about climate, that's the easy one today, the actual environmental footprint think water is probably even more important as, uh, as part of the conversation, I wanted to double back a little bit on the comments you made around diversity and whether that's gender or racial or other. How do you feel like the industry is progressing? How does that conversation feel to you? You're in lots of different forums. Some I'm sure are good, some are less good. How does it feel overall over the last few years?

Rohitesh Dhawan (24:59):

You know, this is a situation where we're going faster than we've ever gone before, but it's the slowest we're gonna go ever in the future. <laugh>. And to get our head around that is extraordinary because on the one hand you've gotta feel great about the progress we're making. On the other hand, you've gotta think, really we have to go better. So what do I mean by that? Look, I would say, I think it was five years ago, maybe longer, the rate of female participation in the mining workforce was 11%. Today it's 16%. That's progress. But really we should be doing a lot better than that. And so I'm really inspired that we are seeing the change. Take a country like South Africa, three of the top four mining jobs in that country at a CEO or chairman level are held by women today. That's amazing thing That's

Dan Barclay (25:55):

Outstanding.

Rohitesh Dhawan (25:55):

It's an amazing thing in a country where I believe it was only 1999 that women were allowed underground in mines. So to be in that position today is an amazing rate of change. And actually that isn't just women, but it's black women that are leading many of those positions. So it's a great, great change story. But then you reflect on some of the insights that came out from Rio Tinto's everyday respect report. Now this was a report that Rio Tinto made public that they have done in of their operations that show really unacceptable and shocking levels of bullying, harassment including sexual assault across their operations. And I really applaud Rio's bravery for sharing this and for committing to implementing the 26 recommendations. Each of the 26 recommendations that came through from the authors of that report. We've taken that report and used it to catalyze change across the industry.

(26:54):

So last year we made a set of changes to our mining principles that mean that we have elevated psychological safety to the same level of importance as physical safety in mining. Yep. And it's gonna mean that companies in ICMM are taking active steps to improve the diversity, equity, and inclusion of our industry. It is just the thing we have to do. There's no question about it. And the, and the final thing I would say on this Dan, is, and this is a, a slightly controversial thing to say on issues of diversity, but it's true for other issues in E S G as well. I firmly believe that targets are necessary and they work, some might call them quotas, I would call them targets. And let me give you an example. I told you that 16% globally is the average female participation rate in the mining industry.

(27:42):

What if I told you there is one company that has doubled that participation rate greater than double and that is BHP BHPs rate of female participation is 33% and they have a goal to be gender balanced by 2025. Now I don't think it's <laugh> uncorrelated that the only company that at the time had made a goal to be gender parity is the one that is well ahead of the rest of the industry. It shows you that when you set yourself a bold and ambitious target, it unlocks reserves of energy that would remain hidden if you weren't that clear and unequivocal about the change that you want to see in the industry. And I think that's not just a lesson on diversity issues, it matters across the ESG spectrum.

Dan Barclay (28:29):

Uh, I don't disagree with the idea of setting targets. What's an interesting is what happens after mm-hmm. BMO is a company, uh, created gender balance probably five or seven years ago. Wow. Uh, we don't have it on the racial side, which is where we still have targets and growth. However, what you find when you get to that point, right, cuz that's counting as opposed to behaving. And then you start a deep, deep conversation on inclusion and what does it mean rather than counting? And you can't get there if you can't count, right? That's just a fact. But then when you get there, the behaviors like what happens below the mind, right? Underground, what's happening in the locker room, what's happening becomes the most important conversation. But if there's no one in the locker room doesn't matter. That's right. And you gotta get there.

Rohitesh Dhawan (29:10):

I love what you said, Dan, because diversity is a reality. Inclusion is a choice. We are a diverse society. That is true. But whether we choose to include people doesn't just happen. It takes leadership of the sort that you and your team at BMO have demonstrated.

Dan Barclay (29:28):

Well, let's wrap up with one more. I love your optimism. I'm a natural optimist myself. When you think about the mining sector as you go forward, what gives you hope? What gives you the optimism about what's coming?

Rohitesh Dhawan (29:41):

Dan? I feel so optimistic when I see leaders of our industry taking some of our most painful moments and turning them into opportunities for growth. Let me just give you one example of this in real life. Valle is the company that suffered the tragic disaster of the collapse of the dam, their tailings dam, which killed 270 people. The ceo, Eduardo has used that as a moment of true change and reform of his company. And he himself will say that Valle used to be arrogant, paternalistic, not listening. And he has turned the culture of the company around to be one that places humility, empathy, active listening at the heart of what they do. Now, does that mean Vallas got everything right? Absolutely not. They have a long way still to go to fully repair the damage caused by the collapse of that dam. But it means that they are setting an example of the kind of leadership and culture that the world is seeking, not just from our industry, but from business in general.

(30:53):

When you really boil it down. ESG is what society expects as the humane, caring side of business. That doesn't have to be political. Nobody needs to be political about the importance of being kind and caring and humane. And so when I see leaders like Eduardo, but it's true for many, many others in the ic m m environment demonstrate these qualities that I'll be honest with you haven't always been ones that people may associate with the mining industry. It gives me such hope for the future because I think we've already achieved so much and changed so many lives for the better. That this layer on top means that the transformative power of mining is still got so many chapters to be written and I can't wait to be a part of that

Dan Barclay (31:41):

Well Ro, as always, spectacular conversation. Appreciate your time and attendance, appreciate the push you're putting on. You are one of our agents of change. Your voice is loud and we want you to keep speaking up. I love that, discussion we had earlier about how much positivity we've created, but we're still at the slowest rate of change we're going to have. Uh, I'm gonna be using that a lot and, uh, thank you for your time and that's a wrap up for the podcast.

Rohitesh Dhawan (32:04):

Thanks so much Dan, and congrats again on a great conference.

Michael Torrance (32:14):

Thanks for listening to Sustainability Leaders. This podcast is presented by BMO Financial Group to access all the resources we discussed in today's episode and to see our other podcasts, visit us at bmo.com/sustainability leaders. You can listen and subscribe free to our show on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast provider and we'll greatly appreciate a rating and review and any feedback that you might have. Our show and resources are produced with support from BMO's Marketing team and Puddle Creative. Until next time, I'm Michael Torrance. Have a great week.

Disclosure (32:52):

The views expressed here are those of the participants in not those of Bank of Montreal, its affiliates or subsidiaries. This is not intended to serve as a complete analysis of every material fact regarding any company industry strategy or security. This presentation may contain forward-looking statements. Investors are cautioned not the place undue reliance on such statements as actual results could vary. This presentation is for general information purposes only and does not constitute in investment legal or tax advice and is not intended as an endorsement of any specific investment product or service. Individual investors should consult with an investment tax and or legal professional about their personal situation. Past performance is not indicative of future results.