Canada’s Bid to Host the New ISSB Headquarters

Charles-Antoine:

Not only we know how to do standard, not only we are committed as a country to make a difference in the sustainability, but we're coming up to see in a tangible manner to see, to accelerate the creation of this board this year.

Michael Torrance:

Welcome to sustainability leaders. I'm Michael Torrance, chief sustainability officer with BMO Financial Group. On the show, we will talk with leading sustainability practitioners from the corporate, investor, academic and NGO communities, to explore how this rapidly evolving field of sustainability is impacting global investment business practices and our world.

Speaker 3:

The views expressed here are those of the participants and not those of Bank of Montreal, its affiliates or subsidiaries.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

One of the key challenges for businesses and the financial sector in terms of supporting the global shift to a more sustainable world, is the lack of common sustainability reporting standards across jurisdictions. This issue remains a concern for climate change leaders, governments, and regulators. But lots of work is being done to address this issue at the international level, most notably at the IFRS Foundation. Following a major consultation conducted over the past several months, the International Financial Reporting Standards Foundation or IFRSF, has found that there is great demand for global sustainability reporting standards, which triggered their proposal to create a brand new International Sustainability Standards Board or ISSB. Canada is actually in the race to host the headquarters of the new ISSB. Today we're speaking with Charles-Antoine St-Jean, CEO of CPA Canada, and Simon Fish, special advisor on climate change at BMO, to discuss Canada's bid to host the ISSB and also opportunities and challenges surrounding sustainability reporting standards.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

As President and CEO of CPA Canada, Charles-Antoine St-Jean leads one of the largest professional accounting bodies in the world with more than 220,000 members. Prior to taking this role, he was appointed chair of the public sector accounting board in 2017, and chair of the Ontario government internal audit committee in 2019. He retired from Ernst & Young in 2017 after serving as national managing partner until 2016. He had rejoined Ernst & Young in 2007 after serving as controller general of Canada from 2004 to 2007. Our other guest, Simon Fish, is BMO's former general counsel. He is a seasoned executive with 30 years of international experience at leading global companies, such as BMO, Vail, and Royal Dutch Shell. As special advisor to the CEO of the Bank of Montreal, Simon Fish is responsible for advising under development and application of the bank's sustainability strategy, approaches to climate change and related financial risk, environmental, and social risk management and impact measurement and reporting. This interview today will be conducted in both official languages of Canada, French and English.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

[foreign language]. To kick things off, Charles-Antoine, can you tell us about yourself, your career and how you came to be involved with the CPA Canada?

Charles-Antoine:

Thank you very much Jean-Simon for the question. The essential my career with Ernst & Young, [inaudible] I finished as a managing partner responsible see for the public sector practice. I also over my career see the extent to see in the federal government. I was a controller general for just about four years in the 2004, 2007, 2008. I've also been involved see with the public for accounting standard to see for quite some time over my career. When I retired from [inaudible] I became chair of the Public Sector Accounting Board of Canada. This is where I started getting a bit more knowledgeable, the understanding, see what was the evolution of those sustainability standard to see that everybody was talking about. This is mostly to this last experience of the tree years after I retired from EY, that it became knowledgeable and understood the city. This is something they say that we must get involved with and fast.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Simon, over to you. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Simon Fish:

[foreign language] Jean-Simon. Let me say at the outset just how delighted I am to join you and Charles-Antoine today. This is an important topic. Charles-Antoine and his colleagues at CPA Canada ought to be commended for the leadership in tackling it head on. My career has been a fortunate mix of law and industry, and one that has taken me to several countries and to a range of business experiences in the global energy, mining and financial services sectors. However, it's in my current role as chair of BMO Climate Institute that I join you today. The BMO Climate Institute is a think and do tank. We're involved in developing strategies and bank wide engagement and solutions on climate risk and opportunity. The Institute helps in partnership with others across the bank, BMO's climate related client engagement, innovation, analytical tools, and research and policies again. It is in this context that I have come to know and work with Charles-Antoine in this important endeavor.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Charles-Antoine, why is the topic of sustainability reporting important for the accounting profession?

Charles-Antoine:

The topic of those standards are important. Historically the accounting profession has been focusing on measurement of the financial accounting of the various transactions. But as things evolved with everybody on this end and now to see performance cannot only be measured by one dimension only, the financial accounting. The multidimensional aspect of it they are quite important. And this is where the three other dimension, the environment, the climate, the social and government became to see very much at the forefront that if you want to measure performance, you've got to measure it in a fulsome matter. Because that's the way that you can ensure that investors and companies, as in communities and government can really ensure that resources are deployed as capital is deployed for the longer run without having been blindsided on two or three aspect of the performance. It is important for the accountant and for all the business people, but all everybody involved in resource allocation and capital allocation to get a good read of the overall performance.

Charles-Antoine:

For us it's a natural compliment of what we've done in the past. We know how to do standards. We've been involving in doing standards for 40, 50 years. We [inaudible 00:08:56] due-process of four standard to see. We know the city, how challenging it is to get to the consensus around standard. We bring some know-how on how to do it, and we can be the accelerators to make it up in the coming years. We've got the background, the experience, and also the willingness to do it.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

[foreign language]

Charles-Antoine:

[foreign language]

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Simon, during your time at BMO, you've seen the growing importance of climate change and sustainability in many, many aspects of your work, including sustainability reporting. It's been quite a shift, I think, on many levels over the years. What are your thoughts on the importance of sustainability reporting for companies and the financial sector and how it's been involving?

Simon Fish:

Jean-Simon, the importance of sustainability reporting generally, and climate disclosure specifically, I don't think can be overstated. Quite plainly, it has significance for all businesses in all sectors, but particularly for financial services where firms intermediate and underwrite sustainability risk, and for their respective investors, regulators, trading partners and employee needs. Sustainability or ESG, if you prefer, investing has evolved enormously over the past 20 or 30 years. It now impacts nearly every aspect of the corporate and investment decision making process. The evolution has driven companies to measure and improve practices across all aspects of the E, the S, and the G spectrum.

Simon Fish:

For example, we continue to see companies improving their measurement and reporting in corporate ESG practice, particularly as more and more companies commit to carbon goals and greater biodiversity awareness, show increased adoption of inclusive human capital management policies, increased gender and ethnic diversity at board and management level, and quite frankly, adopt better board composition and improvements in stewardship practices such as engagement and voting. As a consequence, sustainability reporting itself has continued to evolve with different approaches developing in different regulatory environments. And so today we find that the momentum towards universal reporting and disclosure on climate risk and sustainability is gaining strength at both international and domestic levels.

Simon Fish:

I would hasten to add that although there is not yet a single universally accepted standard for evaluating and disclosing all ESG factors, there are nonetheless several well-recognized standards and agencies such as [inaudible], the global reporting initiative, the Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures, Climate Disclosure Standards Board, and the Value Reporting Foundation. We've seen significant pressure from issuers, investors and regulators, to harmonize this complicated maze of standards and we expect the progress to continue.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Thanks. Charles-Antoine, the International Financial Reporting Standards Foundation plays a major role in setting accounting standards globally. We know that. But can you tell us about the recent work of IFRS on sustainability reporting and perhaps why it's become such a focus area for IFRS trustees from your perspective?

Charles-Antoine:

Well, the issue of the IFRS, the foundation getting involved in the sustainable standard has evolved over the last, I would say two years, three years, to include the city, the [inaudible] of looking, could they also develop the new standard for sustainability on top of the IFRS standards they do for financial reporting? They've been working at it say for a number of months, I would say since last September, last August, September, where they have been exploring to see if they could take on that role. They've been looking at their own governance to see if they could enlarge their footprint, to create new standards for sustainability working, as Simon has just mentioned, working to with some very good standard setters that have been developing some standards over the last 10 years, seven years, 10 years. How could you accelerate the creation of a single set of sustainable standards?

Charles-Antoine:

They've been working hard at it to looking their governance to see if they could take on that role. It's a very different role for them because the IFRS Standard Boards it's [inaudible], it's mostly accountants and some economists that are doing standards. Going forward [inaudible] new discipline that would be working with them so you would have economists, you would have social scientists, you would have scientific, the expert, the climatologists, the legal, you'll have an order discipline to come and create those standards. They've been working hard with the current standard setters to try to come up with one single platform, and also to bring a different discipline into it, and they're making progress.

Charles-Antoine:

They're all looking up to COP26 event in November, to be ready to take on that role. This is, in a nutshell what they've been doing over the last year of getting ready to take on that role. It's been a complicated journey, I would say, of creating that board, but it's all moving in the right direction at this point in time. I don't know if I answered your question or not, Jean-Simon, but that would be my reading of what it is now.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Maybe if you could expand, if you can, a little bit on the International Sustainability Standards Board. As you pointed out, the IFRS has been working on it for a number of months, so it hasn't been fully created yet. I guess my first question to you, Charles-Antoine would be, so what is exactly the mandate of this new sustainability standard board?

Charles-Antoine:

Well, that board has not been created yet. Hopefully the foundation, the trustee will be meeting in September to confirm that they're prepared to take on that role. They're also working on governance to find chair, vice chair, and also to identify who those directors would be [inaudible]. The question of what they will be focusing on, they will be focusing on the first standards. Their first order priority, I think, will be climate but the socials and governance will be following very, very shortly thereafter. But so it's all being done now. Board meeting, we understand is in September where the governance will be changed, and then they will be making the nomination for chair, vice-chairs, and seeking the first.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

The interesting part of the story is that there is a bid for Canada to host the ISSB. Charles-Antoine, can you tell us a little bit more about Canada's bid to host the ISSB?

Charles-Antoine:

Yeah. Maybe [inaudible] to say that it goes back to last September, last August, when I took on the role of CEO of CPA Canada. I was asked to take it on and send and help the city, the profession navigate the city the coming a few years to position itself for the future. I looked to see where were the [inaudible] where the CPA profession could maybe make a difference the coming years. It was very, very clear in my mind that [inaudible] probably one of the highest priority to where we could add some value. I was looking at a dynamic of this [inaudible] so all these international organization working together, and like Simon mentioned, there's five or six or seven different standard setters. They all jockeying a bit to help shape it.

Charles-Antoine:

There was the momentum from [inaudible], the momentum from my [MYESCO]. A lot of great work being done, but having been around for a few years, I've been working internationally for a few years in various capacity, I identified quite early on that all these great ideas, there's a big risk that it will fall flat if you don't have the funding. And so I said, well, okay, so there's a lot of experience in standard setters. We've been doing it for 40 years plus we've got a great reputation [inaudible]. We've got credibility in terms of standard Setter. For many, many years, that's been the case.

Charles-Antoine:

We had the experience, and then I look at the geopolitics of the world at the moment with great American friends and my colleagues from the ICPA, was talking to him regularly to say, "How can we help?" And so on. Was talking to my friends in the UK as well as saying, "That's going to be difficult to pull out." Talking to my friends in Europe, "That's going to be difficult to pull out," and so on. I came up to say, what if Canada was the raising his answer, well, we're going to help you make it happen. It's important. It has to happen. We've got to do it for the generation that follows, for our generation, but also for the generations that follows.

Charles-Antoine:

There was a call to arms, if you want to, what can we do to help? And so gradually we tested the ideas with the private sectors, "Would you come in, do you think it's feasible?" Worked with our friends in the federal government to see, "Would you participate in such an initiative?" Everybody's saying, "Yeah, this is probably a place where Canada, they could make a contribution." That was in September, October, November, then I made a pitch to my board say, "What if CPA Canada was starting to create a fund, a substantial fund to assist the foundation in setting it itself up?" Because all the great ID, but if you don't have the money, it will go nowhere. We wanted to create the accelerator.

Charles-Antoine:

My board was resoundingly positive on it, say, "Yeah, this is the thing we need to do." And they put the first multimillion dollar bets in the fund to start creating it. And then it was a question of going to knocking at the doors of various players. When I see Simon here in front of me, I was a very lucky man to find Simon early on, and I really mean that's Simon, early on to when she starting looking at, how can we make it happen? Simon helped me to see talking to a few people on Bay Street. I had some friends in Montreal, I talked to them, talk to others across the country, talk to also the First Nation, First Nation of Canada. This is important and you tell us our friends and some First Nation that we do not care enough. Would you want to participate in it and also show leadership there?

Charles-Antoine:

Again, they raised their hands, absolutely, we're going to be there. We're starting to see creating the coalition that way, and then the federal government said, "Yep, you do a public private partnership arrangement and we will support you with our money." But the money is more [inaudible] provide us to position Canada to be the forefront. It took four, five months to raise the money and the amount, if you're asking me the amount, I will not tell you what the amount is, because it's still a confidential at this point in time, because we don't want to create a international bidding wars, but it's a substantial. But it took about four or five months to raise it and everybody pledge it in writing their commitment. I must say, Simon helped me with some of his friends on Bay Street. I would say the governor of the bank helped me also with some friendly call, and the deputy minister of finance helped me also with some friendly call.

Charles-Antoine:

Many of our colleagues in the industry they made calls to each other. It was very much a team effort to raise those funds and make the case to the foundation, that not only we know how to do standard, not only we are committed as a country to make a difference in the sustainability, but we're coming up in a tangible manner to accelerate the creation of this board this year. We want it to be effective, let's say by the end of this calendar year, and here's the checks that will enable you to do it. It was a journey.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Yeah. It sounds like quite the journey. Charles-Antoine, just for our listeners, when will the hosts be announced?

Charles-Antoine:

Well, we've been informed that at the moment the plan is still to be announced at COP26. We're talking frequently to see what the leadership at the foundation. They've got a lot of work to be done in the next five, six weeks, like I say, coming up with that initial prototype of this first standard, finding chair, vice chair, making all the logistics of this creation, of the new board. But we're told that should be announced that the COP26 in November.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Charles-Antoine [foreign language].

Charles-Antoine:

[foreign language]. Go and do it for Canada. [foreign language].

Jean-Simon Farrah:

We touched on this earlier, but there are a number of initiatives out there to establish standards. Do we think, and the question is for you both Charles-Antoine and Simon, do we think that the ISSB is our best opportunity to actually get to global standards that are going to be adopted quickly across the board? Is that our best opportunity here?

Simon Fish:

I think, Jean-Simon, the fights for the business community and I'd venture to say for the investor community and all other stakeholders, is an objective uniform and transparent set of sustainability standards, as well as an independent standard setup. This I believe we will have in the new [inaudible]. Its initial focus will likely so be around climate change, climate risk reporting and disclosure. Its stated intention is to build on the past decade of work around sustainability and reporting frameworks that have come from these other global agencies. And not to abandon them, but really to incorporate and develop a common set, perhaps drawing from the best features and the most universal features of these reporting frameworks that will resonate and make sense to all of the different stakeholders who have an interest in the success of the ISSB.

Simon Fish:

Interestingly, I think what we're starting to see is lawmakers who have been watching these developments very carefully, starting to talk about, and in fact, introduce legislation or enabling legislation, that ultimately will encourage issuers, companies, to adopt certain standards and ideally the standards that are formulated by the ISSB, and use those as the framework for the more formal, say securities reporting.

Charles-Antoine:

Yeah, so the question is, can the IFRS board be successful in making it happen to see, is it the best vehicle to make it happen in the city? I would believe so that is, we cannot take another five, 10 years to try to find a vehicle that has proven its ability to develop standards that are adopted in 140 or 150 [inaudible]. We don't have five to 10 years to create to see something [inaudible]. We've got an organization that is scale of doing it, that has been through all the wars, all the scars, is still doing standards the city and getting the city the protocols in place, getting the due diligence in place. There's a certain know-how that exists there that can make it successful quickly.

Charles-Antoine:

Will it be easy? Absolutely not. It will not be easy to do it because there's the new dimension that will be brought into this new board to see is different from the financial accounting. Like I was mentioning earlier on, you'll have to see economists, lawyers, social scientists, many different peoples with different perspective. But there's a framework in place as in how to go about doing standards. We've got a good vehicle to make it happen. That being said, and for my friends in the IFRS board, I've got a lot of always supporting their work. We'll need to learn how to do it faster. And so the standards that will be developed [inaudible], we cannot take five or 10 years to come up with standards. But we will build on the experience of the past and we've got some ways we think we can improve on, but we've got a good solid base to make it happen. Is the IFRS board the best vehicle to make it happen? In my mind, yes. It's going to be hard. Yes. There will be some changes needed, yes. But it's doable and it's doable this year.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

And so terms of the early plans, at least for the ISSB, and I think Simon, you mentioned this, Charles-Antoine you mentioned that as well earlier, the focus will be on climate related standards and then probably expanding on to other ESG topics over time. I guess, Simon, how does that all work or time in the medium, longer term, all of this in your mind?

Simon Fish:

Well, beyond climate related disclosure, the IFRS Foundation has already indicated that the SSB will in time, and I don't think there is any particular framework that's been suggested, but it might be a couple of those that the SSB will in time look to provide a framework for the disclosure of other ESG metrics. That would include, say a company's link between ESG metrics generally and its long term business strategy and the process by which companies use to determine the impact between their ESG metrics and its particular strategy. Indeed we're already seeing it being proposed that some regulators be committed to incorporate international ESG standards such as those contemplated by the IFRS Foundation, as part of normal course issuer requirements and disclosure requirements.

Simon Fish:

This will extend, for example, to disclosure related to executive compensation, to political activity, expenditures, to human capital, workplace harassment, board and executive diversity, worldwide taxes on a country by country basis, cybersecurity, and of course the sourcing of goods from, or through countries facing international sanctions. These are all areas beyond climate change reporting disclosure that could quite comfortably fit within a framework developed by the Sustainability Standards Board. We look forward to that. I think the business community would certainly welcome a similar degree of harmonization and the production of objective uniform standards in this regard and the benefit of having an independent standard, et cetera overseeing all of this.

Charles-Antoine:

[inaudible 00:42:01] just to build on what Simon said. Of course, the initial focus of the new board will be on climate. I think they've announced it, the city need to be done right away. But I would say to all the elements on the social and the governance aspect, it won't take that long to see before [CDR] are going to be coming in. Because all those sub dimension that Simon has mentioned, we see the city the need for, but also there's all the companies, corporate investors and the investors, they need to have some clarity in terms of what need to be disclosed, how comparable it is and [inaudible], because at the moment the plethora of disclosure that is being done is undermining the credibility of many of those effort. When I was doing the call up to see for the money, I say those are those standards that we're going to be providing not only in the climate, but also in the other side. Your cost of compliance is going to go down because you will have to see a standard set to see that the minimum set people will be looking for.

Charles-Antoine:

Instead of having to disclose, say five or six or seven different standards, you'll have one that will be predictable. You will be able to focus your effort, to find what are those measures that really makes a difference? Climate to start with, but social and governance will be coming in very, very shortly thereafter. That's what they're telling us. It will not belong before they're coming in on board as well.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Charles-Antoine [foreign language].

Charles-Antoine:

[foreign language]. The proof will be in the pudding. [foreign language].

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Simon, sustainability reporting has been primarily voluntary, but we're seeing that regulators are starting to contemplate, if and how these disclosures should be factored into companies' regulatory filings. Could you comment at all on the relationship you foresee between the standards developed by the ISSB and mandatory reporting?

Simon Fish:

Well, in short, voluntary standards developed by the SSB or any other agency for that matter will coexist with mandatory reporting going on. In June of this year, the G7 and the central bank governors issued a statement that called for mandatory climate related financial disclosure based on the recommendations of the TCFD. Interestingly enough, the G7 also endorsed the establishment of the Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures, which seeks to build upon the TCFD framework to really reach other biodiversity related risks all with the view to releasing a disclosure framework by 2023. We've already seen in Europe and increasingly in Canada and the US, lawmakers encouraging or mandating climate related disclosures. This includes laws that require quantitative and qualitative disclosures concerning climate related risks, greenhouse gas emissions, the ownership or management of fossil related fuels and the consideration of different climate warming scenarios.

Simon Fish:

I think notably the G7 expressed support for the efforts of the IFRS Foundation to develop baseline global sustainability reporting standards and voluntary standards to which you refer, and to establish an International Standards Board with the first set of standards due mid next year. For me, all of this suggests that lawmakers will increasingly require the use of standards like those to be promulgated by the ISB as well as perhaps continue to mandate industry specific metrics or as frameworks is the basis for their mandatory reporting. The two, in short, will I think continue to exist that even more strongly than they do together, to coexist more strongly than they do together.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Is there anything else you'd like to add to close off maybe Simon?

Simon Fish:

Well, I'll simply end where I started by congratulating Charles-Antoine and CPA Canada. The business community requires an independent, objective, uniform and transparent standard setting structures. We applaud Canada's bid to host this secretariat of the new Sustainability Standards Board. We're a resource rich country and intensely biodiverse nature. We're confident that Canada will bring to this role its reputation as an active supporter of international institutions and our expertise in standard setting and sustainability reporting, climate change and climate related disclosure. I wish Charles-Antoine and everyone involved in this bid much success.

Charles-Antoine:

Maybe if I can say a few words to say, really, and I really mean that to say to a big thank you to Simon, when we get on to see this journey early on last fall to see if it was going to be feasible, when I was lucky enough to find Simon, and we talked many times over the winter, how to make it happen. This I'm sure that would not have been possible without Simon's constant support during the winter. Thank you. Thank you very much for doing so. Thank you very much for BMO, for being such a great partner. I think it's important to see that we're successful to create that board. We owe for this generation and the generation that comes after us, we need to be good at how we're going to be allocating resources and capital in the years to come so that we can create an environment to see what's going to be, like I say, an environment's going to be sustainable for all a city to do business, but also to live in a pleasant environment or a workable environment for all of those, all of us that have been part of this journey.

Charles-Antoine:

I think it's a bit of a call to action to see that we must do better and we must do better now, to maybe correct some of the areas of the past, and we've got a bit of window to do it, but there's a sense of urgency that we cannot wait any longer. Thank you. Thank you all the city and thank you for BMO. Thank you very much Simon for all the support you gave us to make it happen.

Jean-Simon Farrah:

Charles-Antoine, Simon, [foreign language] for your time today and for sharing your insights on this, obviously very rapidly evolving topic.

Charles-Antoine:

[foreign language].

Michael Torrance:

Thanks for listening to Sustainability Leaders. This podcast is presented by BMO Financial Group. To access all the resources we discussed in today's episode, and to see our other podcasts, visit us at bmo.com/sustainabilityleaders. You can listen and subscribe free to our show on Apple podcast, or your favorite podcast provider, and we'll greatly appreciate a rating and review and any feedback that you might have. Our show and resources are produced with support from BMO's marketing team and Puddle Creative. Until next time, I'm Michael Torrance. Have a great week.

Speaker 3:

The views expressed here are those of the participants and not those of Bank of Montreal, its affiliates or subsidiaries. This is not intended to serve as a complete analysis of every material fact regarding any company, industry strategy or security. This presentation may contain forward-looking statements. Investors are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such statements as actual results could vary. This presentation is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute investment, legal or tax advice, and is not intended as an endorsement of any specific investment product or service. Individual investors should consult with an investment tax and or legal professional about their personal situation. Past performance is not indicative of future results.